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標題: 今日JV試左新setting勁開心 [打印本頁]

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-12 23:36
標題: 今日JV試左新setting勁開心
試左bump steering, 之前有高手同我講過, 今日認真試左! (sorry半年先玩倒兩次)
個尾之前好"了", 現在又咬又轉, 今日淨試muchmore control tire都好有效果,跑sorex一定好正!
真係對xray另眼相看,之前都林住放棄賣車,現在keep住玩啦!

作者: g679654 時間: 2011-9-12 23:44
有無相睇睇，bump steering係？？教教小弟

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-12 23:47
it is quite complex, I try to explain later.

作者: 3BG 時間: 2011-9-13 07:21
唔怪之得師兄尋日咁快啦

作者: rcracing 時間: 2011-9-13 09:57
bump steering................bump人車尾steering入灣????

作者: lcman 時間: 2011-9-13 13:02
請問詳情是怎樣？

作者: kkchung 時間: 2011-9-13 13:17
是否說這些？

http://www.optimumg.com/OptimumG ... %20Steer_legacy.htm

作者: Chrispo 時間: 2011-9-13 14:33
From XRAY Setup book, it's suggested to have zero or minimal bump steering for touring car. It's fine for off-road. GTIMAX, did you set at zero bump steer?

作者: yymgun 時間: 2011-9-13 19:27
Tell us more!! And does it only work on X-Ray cars??

作者: Allan007 時間: 2011-9-13 19:45

Chrispo 發表於 2011-9-13 14:33

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From XRAY Setup book, it's suggested to have zero or minimal bump steering for touring car. It's fin ...

師兄邊頁呀？我揾唔到

作者: twa11 時間: 2011-9-13 20:47
可惜政府只搞電車場地而忽略我們這班油車fans

作者: Chrispo 時間: 2011-9-13 21:22

Allan007 發表於 2011-9-13 19:45

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師兄邊頁呀？我揾唔到

P.17 of XRAY T3 Set-up Book, the same page with Ackermann.

作者: Chrispo 時間: 2011-9-13 21:23

yymgun 發表於 2011-9-13 19:27

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Tell us more!! And does it only work on X-Ray cars??

Definitely not! Better to have C-Hing GTIMAX to explain, he can do it much better than me

作者: Allan007 時間: 2011-9-13 21:29

Chrispo 發表於 2011-9-13 21:22

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P.17 of XRAY T3 Set-up Book, the same page with Ackermann.

Thanks 師兄，唔怪之得我猛摷Hudy本野揾唔到啦。

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-13 21:57
嘩估唔倒有咁大回響,我未十分掌握但我嘗試回應大家,有錯請指正!

3BG, 你走我都未試倒,所以追你唔倒

小強果然老手,資料好好我都搵唔倒bump steering既正面作用,good !
Chrispo, no, it is very important for on road car also! maybe xray over looked....
yymgun, any car will work, Tamiya car working with it already and very well
xray and hudy setup book tell basics setup, it must be test by yourshelf !

暫時睇 kkchung 條link, 中文我要搵人番譯

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-13 22:04
當部車開始入灣,車架滾動,轉向推桿的角度產生變化,而幫部車攻灣.
至於點解尾會咬左,我都唔知點解,只知部車越轉越有尾又咬左,未試過咁正!

作者: loman 時間: 2011-9-13 22:09
師兄有無煲呔?

作者: Allan007 時間: 2011-9-13 22:11

gtimax 發表於 2011-9-13 22:04

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當部車開始入灣,車架滾動,轉向推桿的角度產生變化,而幫部車攻灣.
至於點解尾會咬左,我都唔知點解,只知部車 ...

師兄我想問下你部車轉向同懸掛係唔係要攝到十分少虛位，先有咁既效果？我部T3經我粗暴對待十個月後，已出現不少虛位。
Thanks

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-13 22:15
虛位是完全無關的, 我用好虛既TB03R 試效果一樣明顯!

作者: Allan007 時間: 2011-9-13 22:19

gtimax 發表於 2011-9-13 22:15

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虛位是完全無關的, 我用好虛既TB03R 試效果一樣明顯!

咁堅？
XRay本野講當架車㩒上㩒落時如果個toe out唔變，就表示冇bump steering。咁我都要試下啦。

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-13 22:27
就係唔煲胎都有效果先勁

作者: punchan 時間: 2011-9-13 22:41
回復 Allan007 的帖子

等Allan007 C HING 測試及分析後報告，順便多謝你贈送的油厭，換左現在吾漏油啦！THX

作者: Allan007 時間: 2011-9-13 22:56

punchan 發表於 2011-9-13 22:41

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回復 Allan007 的帖子

等Allan007 C HING 測試及分析後報告，順便多謝你贈送的油厭，換左現在吾漏油啦！TH ...

大哥，唔好旨意我呀，我手車好屎架喳。我除左試得出胎既分別外，其他野響我手中都係一樣既

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-14 00:19
都係一樣咁勁

作者: g679654 時間: 2011-9-14 10:38
即係要set 到無bump steering至正確？？

作者: Chrispo 時間: 2011-9-14 11:26

g679654 發表於 2011-9-14 10:38

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即係要set 到無bump steering至正確？？

It doesn't seem like to be. GTIMAX, please illustrate more!!

作者: yymgun 時間: 2011-9-14 20:25

gtimax 發表於 2011-9-13 21:57

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嘩估唔倒有咁大回響,我未十分掌握但我嘗試回應大家,有錯請指正!
3BG, 你走我都未試倒,所以追你唔倒
小 ...

Thanks gtimax, I am reading the X-Ray set up books as I didn't find much setting information on Tamiya, may be is just me but I do really find X-Ray explain many things very well....let me try by myself because both the manual (tell us to set 0 bump steering) and kkchung link suggested differently....

作者: defcone 時間: 2011-9-15 13:24
It just means that as the suspension compresses, you get more toe in and will lead to undetsteere. Therefore it feels like more rear grip in turn in.

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-15 13:32

defcone 發表於 2011-9-15 13:24

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It just means that as the suspension compresses, you get more toe in and will lead to undetsteere. T ...

no, it gets more steering and rear grip!
I dont know how to calculate the bump steering, zero or positive or negative , it is no document found for it, so we have to test for your own car.
I will tell more until I can handle it !
thanks

作者: arto6 時間: 2011-9-15 14:09
ching們，以下有位ching在國內論壇的資料，希望幫到你地思考
www.rcfans.com/bbs/home.php?mod= ... do=blog&id=3588

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-15 18:24
very good info , thanks!

作者: arto6 時間: 2011-9-15 18:32
ue welcome

作者: Allan007 時間: 2011-9-15 19:06

arto6 發表於 2011-9-15 14:09

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ching們，以下有位ching在國內論壇的資料，希望幫到你地思考
www.rcfans.com/bbs/home.php?mod=space&ui ...

好！明白晒。Thank you 師兄

作者: g679654 時間: 2011-9-15 23:10
明白晒

作者: Chrispo 時間: 2011-9-16 15:07
found this website: http://www.smithees-racetech.com.au/ackerman.html

Although it's about ackerman geometry, it seems like explaining why the rear of the car is getting more stable about the bump steer has been adjusted. Just my personal understanding: when adjusting the bump steer, you are actually working on the dynamic toe change during the cornering. I don't think XRAY has been overlooking the issue. XRAY may want to set the bump steer to minimial effect and let the ackerman adjuster at the steering system to do most of the job. Just my own opinion.

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-16 23:12
bump steer /ackerman no any relationship when I was tested.
but thanks

作者: Allan007 時間: 2011-9-16 23:18

gtimax 發表於 2011-9-16 23:12

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bump steer /ackerman no any relationship when I was tested.
but thanks

岩岩換晒兩邊C座，T3原裝setting，細心測量後bump steering為小於一度，聽朝JV試車

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-16 23:57
good try!

作者: Chrispo 時間: 2011-9-17 00:03

gtimax 發表於 2011-9-16 23:12

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bump steer /ackerman no any relationship when I was tested.
but thanks

It's true that both of them may not have direct relationship but they are certainly affecting the toe change during cornering. Bump steer - something is undesirable, uncontrollable in 1:1 racing car and ackerman is something you can control and set to your desired level.

I'm just guessing .... (correct me if I'm wrong)..... you were tested at JV, a very smooth and flat track, excellent for touring cars. Under this circumstance with the ackerman being left as the factory setting, changing the bump steer (I here assume toe up when pressing down the front of the car) means having more toe out during the mid-corner and corner exit. Why not the corner entry, similar due to that the loading of the front tyres are controlled by the shocks, front roll centre height and the geometry of the suspension arms. At the mid-corner and corner exit, when these factors are pushing to the limits, the bump steer effect kicks in especially at the front inside tyre. The extra toe out at front inside tyre generates more lateral grip and therefore the car can have higher speed through the mid-corner and corner exit.

So why did you have more stability at the rear part? I can only assume (or another wild guess,

) with the front part of the car (both the front outside and inside tyres are generating similar grip, instead of the outside tyre grip >>>> inside tyre grip), now the car behaves as if what a 4WD should be. Meanwhile, beware that you find the stability happened at mid-corner and corner exit, this is usually the area when you press onto the throttle so the weight transfer effect at your car put great loading to the rear of your car leading to excellent traction. Again, that means you would have no problem in accelerating your car out of the corner.

作者: Chrispo 時間: 2011-9-17 00:05
Sorry for the long writing. Thanks for your time reading the lines.

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-17 09:00
good point
thanks a lot!

作者: punchan 時間: 2011-9-17 17:41
回復 Allan007 的帖子

點呀！架T3新setting好嗎？分享吓及有冇圖睇吓。THX

作者: Allan007 時間: 2011-9-17 17:49

punchan 發表於 2011-9-17 17:41

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回復 Allan007 的帖子

點呀！架T3新setting好嗎？分享吓及有冇圖睇吓。THX

今天很失敗

首先今朝直路頭有灘水，地板油出灣即刻跳Tango，玩左一排電叫做開始乾，去到第二排電發覺架車有D神經病，原來左邊轉向杯下面鑼絲窿爆左，只好走人，下星期再接再勵

作者: Noir.KAZE 時間: 2011-9-17 17:59

Allan007 發表於 2011-9-17 17:49

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今天很失敗
首先今朝直路頭有灘水，地板油出灣即刻跳Tango，玩左一排電叫做開始乾，去到第二排電發覺 ...

咁失手呀......

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-17 19:54
no spare parts?

作者: Allan007 時間: 2011-9-17 19:58
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didn't bring to JV ...

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-17 20:26
why not?
or use metal steering cup (I am using), never break down!

作者: Allan007 時間: 2011-9-17 20:31

gtimax 發表於 2011-9-17 20:26

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why not?
or use metal steering cup (I am using), never break down!

Oh really? From X-Ray?

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-18 23:14
local brand, very durable!

作者: drchan 時間: 2011-9-19 00:51
我都想試下

作者: fatchickterian 時間: 2011-9-19 08:58
Hi C-hing gtimax, can you please upload a photo of your Dump Steer setting??

Just want to see how dose the steering hub aconnecting to steering tie rod thanks!!

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-19 21:45
本帖最後由 gtimax 於 2011-9-19 21:46 編輯

haha dump steering...............bump steering

my digital cam was broken, I try take photo later,
sorry about that,
before that just try, very simple, add 2mm collar between steering cup hole and steering link !

作者: Chrispo 時間: 2011-9-19 21:52
Tried to work on that the other day,1mm shin between the steering rod and steering cup yields ~ 0.5 deg toe out on full compression.

作者: vcslll 時間: 2011-9-20 00:03
多謝各師兄分享，小小明再了解吓，返去試試。

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-20 00:20
try it and feel it,
waiting for your report!

作者: Noir.KAZE 時間: 2011-9-20 11:59

gtimax 發表於 2011-9-19 21:45

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haha dump steering...............bump steering
my digital cam was broken, I try take photo later, ...

即係set平支推桿？
我一早已經加左1mm落去，試下加多1mm先

作者: fatchickterian 時間: 2011-9-20 13:45
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Thanks for sharing!!

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-28 20:43
今日落雨前試左collar加在轉向柱那邊,灣頭反應強了,真係好神奇

作者: punchan 時間: 2011-9-28 21:09
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C HING 有冇相睇下！THX

作者: rcracing 時間: 2011-9-29 10:34

gtimax 發表於 2011-9-28 20:43

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今日落雨前試左collar加在轉向柱那邊,灣頭反應強了,真係好神奇

你唔係而家先知有呢種setting呀???
呢度冇人講過咩???

作者: icemen 時間: 2011-9-29 10:38

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-29 16:08

rcracing 發表於 2011-9-29 10:34

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你唔係而家先知有呢種setting呀???
呢度冇人講過咩???

你好rcracing,
小弟只係聰過D高手講,真係岩岩試,可唔可以指教下點分析反應及量度?
都唔想dry試,因網上都找不到仔細的講解,thanks!

作者: tekin708 時間: 2011-9-29 17:41
小弟覺得對Touring 既影響不大。

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-29 19:37
影響都好大,我問過真房車賽車師父,他們都話很重要.

作者: tekin708 時間: 2011-9-29 20:37

gtimax 發表於 2011-9-29 19:37

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影響都好大,我問過真房車賽車師父,他們都話很重要.

真房車賽車師父有無講點樣影響好大，請指教下。

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-9-29 21:25
佢話入灣及灣中既反應影響都好大.

作者: rcracing 時間: 2011-9-29 21:58

gtimax 發表於 2011-9-29 16:08

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你好rcracing,
小弟只係聰過D高手講,真係岩岩試,可唔可以指教下點分析反應及量度?
都唔想dry試,因網上都 ...

呢d係基本功,對放玩咬地嘅車有一定需要,開燈鬥果d...hea車就影響不大!!

作者: rcracing 時間: 2011-9-29 21:59

gtimax 發表於 2011-9-29 21:25

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佢話入灣及灣中既反應影響都好大.

全中!!

作者: ken0750 時間: 2011-10-2 01:17
yeah.........

作者: s08wckm 時間: 2011-10-2 14:27
RCRACING 師兄，小師弟剛玩車不久，希望可有對模型車知識有多些了解。師兄提到以上討論是基本功，希望你能再詳加解說；例如，如何對入灣有幫助等，多謝賜教！

作者: rcracing 時間: 2011-10-3 22:53

s08wckm 發表於 2011-10-2 14:27

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RCRACING 師兄，小師弟剛玩車不久，希望可有對模型車知識有多些了解。師兄提到以上討論是基本功，希望你能 ...

小弟不才,不能用文字詳解,有興趣可到PYC找3P,他是RC教練,必定能幫到師兄！

作者: s08wckm 時間: 2011-10-3 22:58
Thank you

作者: punchan 時間: 2011-10-4 21:06
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C HING ！可否影D相指教吓及T3 setting thx!

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-10-4 21:56
photo
on steering cup side, mid corner effect strong
on steering post, corner entry strong

: 登錄/註冊後可看大圖

: 登錄/註冊後可看大圖

作者: mcb 時間: 2011-10-4 22:24

gtimax 發表於 2011-10-4 21:56

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photo
on steering cup side, mid corner effect strong
on steering post, corner entry strong

ching 小弟身手,可吾可以在圖上用指示,在那個加上collar,thanks

作者: Allan007 時間: 2011-10-4 22:27

mcb 發表於 2011-10-4 22:24

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ching 小弟身手,可吾可以在圖上用指示,在那個加上collar,thanks

第一幅圖：藍色果粒嘢
第二幅圖：銀色果粒嘢

作者: mcb 時間: 2011-10-4 22:29

Allan007 發表於 2011-10-4 22:27

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第一幅圖：藍色果粒嘢
第二幅圖：銀色果粒嘢

thanks ching

作者: gtimax 時間: 2011-10-4 23:05
我都係新手,大家試倒咩反應記得上黎話我知,等我可以收集數據!
我見現在D車己唔興steering post既設計,點set倒真要動動腦跟了

作者: punchan 時間: 2011-10-5 08:43
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THX! C HING 

歡迎光臨 RC EVOLUTION - 遙控工房 - 香港RC遙控車討論區 (https://rc-evo.com/xbbs/)