RC EVOLUTION - 遙控工房 - 香港RC遙控車討論區

標題: 初測試 Preliminary testing for 2.4G module with EX1UR + 2.4G AWD [打印本頁]

作者: Aurora 時間: 2008-5-20 14:45
標題: 初測試 Preliminary testing for 2.4G module with EX1UR + 2.4G AWD
Hi, all.

Happy to report back to everyone on my latest use of Ex1 UR + 2.4G module + 2.4G AWD.  While more through testings are probably needed, this is my preliminary results and thoughts on this combo.

Installation tips for 2.4G board with AWD chassis:

1) The 2.4G board cover package will include three things: the ESC cover, a stick to push the matching button and the motor pod to screw on the motor wires.  Since they are made of the softer material, I strongly recommend to re-use or continue to use the blue-grey chassis motor pod.  Some trimming might be needed if you are installing additional fets.

2) The new 2.4G board is more compact, and all the components are in a tighter layout.  Be extra careful not to de-solder any small components when installing the new fets.  The fets layout are different too.  So if you are new to or not comfortable to make the fet upgrade, I would recommend to get it done with the pros.

3) Be careful when handling the 2.4G short antenna wire, it is kinda loose and make fall apart if you keep pulling it from board.

Matching/Pairing/Binding procedure for 2.4G board to 2.4G module:

This is essentially covered by the manual or in the KT18 manual.  But I will put it on for reference purpose, in case anyone has lost it:

A) Power off your remote and car.  Put the 2.4G module onto your remote
B) While PRESS and HOLD the pairing/binding button on the module, power "on" your remote
C) when you see the red led light on module dim, release the module button
D) Now your remote is ready to 'match' and let it power "on" for now; if you don't see the light dimming, repeat A-C.

E) While the car is off, PRESS and HOLD onto the 2.4G board pairing/binding button on car (with the stick)
F) Turn "on" the car, and continue to PRESS the pairing/binding button for another 10 seconds
G) Now release the pairing/binding button on the board.  The 2.4G board should be matched/paired/binded to that 2.4G module.

H) Turn off remote and then car.  Power 'on' the remote and then car to check the connection.  If you are using EX1 UR, make sure it is in the 'ADV' mode to take full advantage of your 2.4G module...

[ 本帖最後由 Aurora 於 2008-5-23 14:58 編輯 ]

作者: Aurora 時間: 2008-5-20 14:46
Preliminary report on Ex1 UR + 2.4G module + 2.4G board on AWD

Using the same Ex1 UR and two similar setup AWD cars(body, chassis, parts, settings), I have compared an AD band AWD with upgraded fets vs a 2.4G AWD also with upgraded fets. The following are some of my thoughts:

Throttle

The throttle response on the 2.4G AWD seems to be very crisp and a little 'snappy' when compared to the AD band car.  Without using any quick response for throttle, the 2.4G board seems to give the car a more 'punchy' feel.  But I have observed there seems to be a very noticeable delay when you want the car to go backwards, after a crash.  And driver has to wait longer in order for a 2.4G car to go back vs an AD band car.

According to other forum discussion, KY personnel has confirmed there is a solid 0.2 sec wait before car can go backwards after the trigger goes to neutral, and it is suggested to 'slowly' go into reverse after the 0.2 sec wait.  To resolve this issue, I suggest driver to first adjust and re-center your Tx potentiometer or VR(when your steering/throttle trim at zero).  Then adjust your throttle trim to find the 'neutral' on your Ex1 UR to make life easier.  Trimming forward seems to help find the 'neutral' on my Tx.

Also, the reason for no/difficult reverse on your Ex1 UR with 2.4G is because the throttle trigger is 'lighter' than the EX10, so if you just 'double tap' the trigger into reverse(like the old EX10), the new soft EX1 UR trigger might overshoot the 'neutral', and the car goes forward again.  So careful and slower trigger motion will prevent the 'overshoot'.

On KT18, I suggest you to refer to pg. 24 and follow the steps very carefully to resolve your no reverse problem.

In terms of linear performance, I felt the car is a little more 'snappy' w/ 2.4G and a little slightly less 'linear' than an AD band.  This will be more obvious on small track, and driver can probably adjust the throttle curve to their own liking on this.

Steering

2.4G Steering without any curve/punch/QR adjustment seems to be excellent.  Usually, on my AD band car, even with ICS adjustment for stronger/faster steering, the "travel" on my Ex1 UR has to be set at around 100% (while the L/R balance is in 70-80% range).  But the same car will now need 80% travel(with 2.4G) to achieve the same turning characteristic.

The steering characteristic seems to be comparable to the AD band, the performance seems linear; no obvious 'punchy' or 'snappy' feeling for the 2.4G steering when compared to AD band.

One interesting thing to observe and test is your new steering 'quick response'--if you put your car on a car stand and keep turning your steering wheel from L to R.  You will notice the car will turn its wheel in a smooth manner when the QR is at zero, but it will become very choppy when the QR is turn high.  That will confirm what I discuss with GTRTam eariler in another post about 2.4G...

http://bbs.rc-evo.com/viewthread ... page%3D2&page=2

I am no electronics expert, so can't really say the reason for why the wheel turning will become 'choppy' when QR is high; my best guess is the steering QR might possible be designed to handle larger scale RC cars, say 1/10, and the high steering QR is used to bring out the full potential of a good steering servo, such way that it will follow the driver's steering hand to its best ability. But the story may differ if in miniz case--the steering servo motor is already taxed to its full potential, the additional performance asked by higher steering QR may be overwhelming to the steering motor--and the end result is the miniz steering servo keep on correcting its position, while skipping to a new position everytime it corrects itself. Anyway, a long-winded guess, but just my 2 cents worth...

EX1 UR remote thoughts

It is most obvious that this is a recall of the old EX1 model, and definitely will appear to the more traditional KO fans.  The handle grip is smaller and I feel it fit onto my hand better, and probably more comfortable to hold for longer time.

The size of the Ex1 UR is smaller in general, when compared to EX10.  And I will strongly recommend people to get a remote 'stand' since it does not stand as solidly as the Ex10.  Also, falling front and backward will hurt the steering wheel or the module severely. Proper protection will be needed for the 2.4G module, the antenna will break easily if you keep pressing onto it.

The display is awfully small, but probably will save some battery time.  Same battery holder is used in Ex1UR and Ex10, so you can continue to use the same li-ion battery if you have one.

The traditional long antenna on Ex1 UR WILL NOT be unscrewed off the remote like Ex10, if you attempt to 'unscrew' your EX1 UR remote, you might have to take apart the whole remote to install it back.  The antenna can be fully retracted into the Tx body, so let it alone.

Thank you for reading, and any feedback/thoughts are most welcomed!

[ 本帖最後由 Aurora 於 2008-5-22 00:14 編輯 ]

作者: DriftNoobie 時間: 2008-5-20 21:12
Great report! Very helpful.

Thanks!

作者: GTRTam 時間: 2008-5-21 02:57
Hey Aurora, do you have the ICS setting adpator ? Kyosho Japan told me we can use the 3 pins cable to set the new 4 pins ICS. Plug into the 2,3,4 pin with the old cable 1,2,3 pin.

Anyway, thanks for your detail report !

作者: samy 時間: 2008-5-21 09:29
is it truth? so it can has more set-up for ppl.

作者: Aurora 時間: 2008-5-21 10:08
DriftNoobie,
Thanks for reading!

GTRTam,
Good call! I have heard the same thing, and still hasn't got around to test it. I kinda wonder why do they come out of 4 pins if they are not planning to make a new ICS setting software/hardware. I was hoping to have some improvement...

Anyway, Tam, do you know which three pins should we be using? Assuming we are in front of the car, facing directly to ICS connection plug?

Samy,
Indeed, it is.

作者: GTRTam 時間: 2008-5-21 11:40
Here you go Samy. Kyosho said " Regarding to the KO 4 pin ICS adopter, it is under development now, and will be available on June or July. No item # is decided at this moment.If you have 3-pin type ICS in hands, you may also able to use it to replace 4 pin type. When you use 3 pin type, please make sure you fit 3 pins at rear-side. (one pins at front side will be vacant) You should be able to use ICS function. Well, this is secret technique, and we have to ask you to try this at your own risk. "

作者: Aurora 時間: 2008-5-21 12:42
GTRTam,

Thanks for sharing! Awesome.

作者: Aurora 時間: 2008-5-22 00:27
為了方便閱讀及討論, 譯寫了中文版, 中文版將同連載於rcfans.

测试背景：
在同一熟悉的中小型RCP跑道上，同一台AWD及Ex1UR控，比较了AD band 及改了2.4G的表现。另外一台setting相仿的AD band AWD及Ex10作後備比較之用。 Ex1UR控在测試時用的是ADV mode。

油门
在没有使用EX1 UR quick response/curve/punch的情况下, 前進時，2.4组合油門表现精確爽朗, 给油及回油都没有明顯延誤或提前。後退時，2.4G组合明顯比AD band遲缓/麻烦。據国外論檀討論, 很可能與預設的0.2待机時間或油門板机較軟有关。用KT18者，可詳閲跟KT18控的说明書24页。用Ex1 UR者, 提意用油門trim去改善。线性方面, 总体感觉良好, Ex1UR+2.4G版感觉比AD band較爆少少，這情况在中小形場地較为明顯。

轉向
在没有使用EX1 UR quick response/curve/punch的情况下, 2.4G轉向表现與AD band ICS最高速轉向相仿, 表现很好，没有明顯轉向延誤或提前。轉向行程比AD band多, 以往在AD band上調ST travel 要到100%左右；现在同樣的跑道，車及ST balance, 用80% travel左右就足已了。

有趣一提的是Ex1 UR控的轉向quick response （QR），其功用到现在有点衆説紛纷，有些说轉快了,又有些说没差异；其實所謂“快了”是有代價的，而个人感觉没用可能轉向會更精確。

一个簡單的實驗可以説明這潜在的代價: 如果把2.4G車放在車台上，四輪离地, 用家快速的左右擰EX1 UR控上的轉向呔；這時你會發现如果加了較多的轉向QR (如60%-120%), 2.4G車的轉向會变得快速的一節一節的跳着轉, 有点失真的感觉。而没有加轉向QR的2.4G車, 會正常流暢地快速轉動。

小弟不能说很清楚为什麽加了高QR的轉向, 呔會轉得一節節。但實地跑道上,可以明顯感到--加了高QR後, 2.4G車會失去细微的路綫精確性。我猜想原QR的設計可能更適合大車轉向，在快速的轉動下, 高QR可能會促使優質Servo更快更有力的轉動, 使之克服貫性, 能更真實追隨人手。但可能在miniZ Servo上, 本身已是在極速轉動了, 高QR的額外要求可能會超出Servo馬逹的極限, 最後因實際轉動與信号不相符, 糾正結果變得一節節...

有關EX1 UR
很明顯是復克EX 1的新控, 或者是為了取悅傳統KO玩家, EX1 UR的總體比EX10要小巧。強烈提議用家考慮使用控站 (remote stand), EX1 UR自身可能站得不太穩。控的電池盒和EX10 一樣, 用家可沿用已有的EX10電。控的顯示小得可憐, 但也可能較省電。最後, 提意用家千萬不要試將天綫拔下, 否則拔下了就要拆控才能裝回去。

簡單测试, 有錯請指教。

作者: nick5545 時間: 2008-5-22 10:53
thanks report

作者: Aurora 時間: 2008-5-23 13:56

原帖由 GTRTam 於 2008-5-21 11:40 發表

 登錄/註冊後可看大圖

Here you go Samy. Kyosho said " Regarding to the KO 4 pin ICS adopter, it is under development now, and will be available on June or July. No item # is decided at this moment.If you have 3-pin type IC ...

Hey, Tam.

I tried your 'secret technique' for using the 3 pin ICS connection, for the ASF 2.4G. But it ain't working. And I am sure both my handheld and USB setting adapter are functioning.

Have you any luck on trying that?

Btw, will you be going to MMS or CT tonight? I will be heading back to HK tonight.

作者: GTRTam 時間: 2008-5-24 13:43
Yes, it seems doesn't work as a guy tried last night in MMS. I'm gonna send an email again to Kyosho & ask for help again. Already 2 nights in MMS so not going on Sat night. Anyway, I'll go tomorrow 5-6:00pm to midnight.

歡迎光臨 RC EVOLUTION - 遙控工房 - 香港RC遙控車討論區 (https://rc-evo.com/xbbs/)